I experienced some intermittent WiFi issues with one of my family member's iOS devices, here was eero WiFi support's spectacular response
I had some networking stalling issues with an iPhone 7 Plus device on my home's otherwise quite stable network. I was basically asking whether they knew of anything that could explain how one iOS 11 device could have some issues after moving around the home, versus the other iPhone 8 Plus and iPhone X that experienced hand-off issues only very rarely.
In the end, everything worked out great, with iOS 11.4 working very nicely with my 3 first generation eero devices, and the network stability restored. That's not to say there weren't some surprise twists and turns along the way, with a lot of lessons learned. Taylor in eero's outstanding support group handled this complex issue with persistence and professionalism. This experience was among the very best examples of technical support experiences I've ever experienced these past 3+ decades of working with computers at home, at others' homes, and at work.
Troubleshooting WiFi is complicated
If nothing else, I think you'll be pretty thoroughly convinced that eero support is phenomenal, and they really stand by their product. Yes, that even means they try to troubleshoot not just their devices, but the devices attached to your home's WiFi. Now that's well above and beyond any expectation I ever had, especially after a touch of PTSD from using dozens of consumer (largely unsupported) routers over the past 2 decades, which rarely had firmware updates after the first year. These days, that's just not acceptable. It's also clear that troubleshooting WiFi is almost never simple. But eero support, along with excellent product design and super simple deployment, have greatly improved the WiFi throughout my home.
Please be kind to both Taylor and I as you read these hastily typed emails below that were never originally intended to be seen by others. Please don't judge, and note that I make no claims to be any sort of wiz at WiFi. But I do know that I don't miss repeaters and extenders and unique SSIDs: mesh networking has totally changed all that for my family.
I figure that publishing this conversation might also help somebody out there who isn't finding this information on any forums anywhere. The only editing I did was to get rid of numerous superfluous lines like 22W3KY-LODY (the case #?) and long boilerplate email footers, along with some email addresses and personal notes, where my edits are clearly marked as redacted.
Please feel free to leave a comment below, especially if you have stories of your own eero support support experiences to share!
If you found this article helpful and you're interested in buying eero, the 2nd Generation is now available at Amazon, B&H, Best Buy, and Newegg. My own experiences are only with the 1st Generation eero, with 3 of them still running in my home and set to bridge mode, using my Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite for DHCP/DNS/routing, all wired to my gigabit network connected to my Cox Communications Gigablast compatible Arris SB8200 DOCIS 3.1 Cable modem.
My "Submit a request" report, and eero's responses in green
I filled out the eero Help Center Submit a request form Monday, April 16, 2018:
I have multiple iOS 11.3 devices with issues staying connected to at least 2 of my 4 eero devices. They are all hard wired to 1GbE switches connected to my cable model (300Mbps down / 30 Mbps up) connection, and in bridged mode, with a Ubiquiti router doing all DHCP/DNS/routing duties.
This issue seems to be worse with a iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 11.3 than on an iPhone X at iOS 11.3, happening several times a day. The only workaround to network stalls seems to be to go into Control Center, and toggle WiFi off then back on again, then the network traffic starts flowing again.
Do you have any ideas I can try for troubleshooting? Can eero be set to send debug info to a syslog server (that I have on my private network)?
These issues have been going on for months, all the way back to early 11.x days.
Paul Braren
I quickly received this submission confirmation:
From: eero Customer Support support@eero.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 10:58 AM
To: Paul Braren
Subject: Support Request Received Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)Hi Paul,
Thanks for reaching out! We review and respond to all incoming requests as quickly as possible, and a member of our team will get back to you shortly. We appreciate your patience!
In the meantime, you can also visit our Help Center.
You can also reach us by phone (877-659-2347) or on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/eerosupport.
We look forward to assisting you,The eero team
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
Apr 18, 12:19 PM PDT
Hello Paul,There are a few key points to hit on this scenario. Basically, Apple follows an unusual standard for the roaming protocol. They use a custom configuration for how the device handles the roaming handshake. Because of this, the eeros appear to not be providing internet to the device.
MacOS devices will prioritize connections by following the protocols for the trigger threshold. macOS clients monitor and maintain the current BSSID’s connection until the RSSI crosses the -75 dBm threshold. After RSSI crosses that threshold, macOS scans for roam candidate BSSIDs for the current ESSID.
iOS for example, aggressively "blackholes" BSSIDs if there's an interruption in connectivity. Consider this threshold in view of the signal overlap between your wireless cells. macOS maintains a connection until the -75 dBm threshold, but 5 GHz cells are designed with a -67 dBm overlap. Those clients will remain connected to the current BSSID longer than you expect.
Your iPhone will show full bars while the internet just drops. This is because the eeros have allowed the roam and the iPhone is on the new eero, but the iPhone has not processed the other half of the handshake. This is usually prevalent whenever the new network has the same SSID and password credentials as an older network. Sometimes clearing it out fixes issues people have. By telling a device to forget the network and then joining it again, this will usually resolve any of the previously cached data that the device is clinging to. Not necessarily root cause for an issue but a troubleshooting step for iOS.
Another possible causality is that the network may be oversaturated. It is possible the the eeros are to close and are overlapping heavily. Spreading them farther apart would help resolve this issue.
Please let me know if this is possible, or if you have any questions.
Regards,
Taylor | eero Support
If you'd like immediate answers to general questions, please visit our Help Center.
Or give us a call at (877) 659-2347 We’re available 7 days a week: 7am – 5pm PT
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:03 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Well, that is one helluva reply! Any chance you have a sense of whether iPhone 7 users are affected more than iPhone X users?
We’re forgetting our WiFi, then rejoining, as a first step for a day or two. Then we’ll try unplugging one of the 4 eeros for a while, to see if either reduces the rate of these stalls. I’ll report back when I have news to share.
Taylor, I really appreciate your attention to this matter, and hope there’s something I’m able to share eventually to help others (wired backhaul with bridge mode nerds), once we figure out what is going on.
Paul Braren
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
Apr 21, 3:50 PM PDT
Hello Paul,I apologize for the delayed response.
Honestly it is kind of a toss up between the generations of devices. Some work fine until they eventually don't, and some have problems right off the bat. Typically though, as far as I have noticed the issues seem to appear right before and right after an update to the operating systems. After a while the issue will seem to go a way and all is well.
However, with the most recent updates to OSX for High Sierra it seems to be related to the cached system info. Specifically the network configuration information that is saved in the system's library. Most people are able to resolve the issues on OSX and iOS by going through and initiating a fresh connection. Some people have not been so lucky. More specifically the devices that are somewhat older and are pushing to the latest firmware seem to have the most issues. This makes sense if the issue is related to cached data and configurations as those devices have had longer to build up data over time.
While these issues for the most part seem to be diminishing with each update we push out, it still seems to be unresolved.
Another possible remedy is to clear the eero cache as well. Basically I would just recommend a Soft Reset instead of the Hard Reset. A soft reset will clear all network configurations from the eero, but preserve its sessions. This keeps the eero on your network and saves its logs and advanced settings such as IP reservations and port forwarding configurations.
To soft reset your eero, hold the reset button until its LED flashes yellow (7 seconds), then release it.
Note: if this is a Generation 1 eero, you will need a paperclip or something small enough to press the reset button.
I hope this information helps, if the issue persists please don't hesitate to reach out.
Best,
Taylor | eero Support
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 10:45 AM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Taylor, your responses are inspiring. I really wish I could publish them as-is, or at least hope that some of the great gems in here work their way into FAQ content hosted right on eero.com somewhere that I can point my readers to. Your extreme efforts at carefully explaining the challenges here gives me so much more confidence that I’ve chosen the right platform for my family, and naturally you can guess what I pointed my sister-in-law to recently, who is plagued with WiFi extender issue in a 2,300 square foot home, 1 eero + 2 Beacons. Based on everything you say here, that not much changes with the 2nd generation eeros versus my first generation eeros, as far as this corner-case behavior that only some users experience.
Ok, I saved the best news for last. I’m cautiously optimistic here that forgetting then re-adding seems to have greatly reduced the network stalls for my family member’s iPhone 7 Plus, he used to have multiple stalls per day. As for my iPhone X, it’s good too, no incidents lately, ever since I also did the forgot/re-add back on Apr 22nd.
I’ll need a few more days to be much more confident in that assertion, along with more details in my report back to you. If we have more pauses, since we’re firmly in this camp (bought eero Aug 2016): More specifically the devices that are somewhat older and are pushing to the latest firmware seem to have the most issues.
We’ll go ahead with the soft reset suggestion.
If you already know of a FAQ that alludes to these iOS 11.x behavioral challenges, and/or hope for a brighter future, by all means, point me there, so I can point my readers there. I realize your company helped propel the WiFi industry out of its multi-decade slumber of no-innovation, and I’m thankful for that.
And to you personally Taylor, a huge thank you. Folks like you make ALL the difference to your company’s success!
Paul Braren
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
May 2, 8:05 AM PDT
Hello Paul,This is Taylor with eero following up. Just following up to see if you have any new information since we last spoke?
As for iOS issues there is nothing that is listed in a FAQ for either party unfortunately. Most of the information I have gathered is from personal experience and trying to figure out the cause of the issues that pop up. A lot of the problems do not seem to follow any specific pattern and are hard to replicate, so I focused on trying to resolve the connection issues overall.
This is probably only a temporary fix for most users but I feel that at some point the updates pushed out from both sides will either resolve everything, or break it all and that would force them to reevaluate the source of the issues.
For the most part I have found success with these steps outlined here: https://www.igeeksblog.com/wi-fi-not-working-in-ios-11/
This isn't anything official but I find the pictures and step by step have the greatest impact and it makes the steps easy to follow.
I hope the problems are resolved soon, but as of right now I am sorry to say that it is 50/50 on whether or not the end devices want to cooperate.
If you need anything, don't hesitate to reach out.
Regards,
Taylor | eero Support
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 10:46 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Thank you for checking in, Taylor! I had another report of some network stalls on my son’s iPhone 7 Plus (only like 2 incidents per week), so we decided to do the soft reset on all 4 gen1 eeros, then forgot and rejoined WiFi on our iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 8 Plus, and iPhone X devices, and we’ll see how it goes in the coming few days.
Paul Braren
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:51 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Hey Taylor!
Some updates, with some good news mixed in:
a) I had an issue where the speed test from within the eero app was sporadically very low a couple of weeks ago, odd, like 17 down and 37 up, or 1 down and 37 up, but a restart of all the eeros through the app cleared that right up, never happened before, and hasn’t happened since. I’m now always testing at least 400Mbps down and 37Mbps up, which is about the same as from a wired PC on my network (makes sense, all my eeros are wired backhaul, glad that little CPU can keep up!)
b) The most problematic device, the iPhone 7 Plus, has been happy for days, doesn’t seem to be getting network stalls (that need WiFi toggling off/on to resolve), this is great! Your forget and rejoin, along with rebooting all 4 eeros in the house, may have resolved the issue that started this trouble ticket, yay!
c) One of my 4 eeros is now making a high pitch intermittent buzzing noise in the last few days:
Serial # E61V-1747-DJTE-ZNZ9 Model No: A010001
so I’ve unplugged it today, and replaced it with an eero 1st gen I picked up cheap from eBay, which smooth updated its firmware and is now online, with no buzzing
If you are interested, I can mail in the noisy eero, so you can learn from whatever component failure it may be suffering. I can also dig up an audio recording I made of it, if that’s useful to share, just let me know, no hurry…
Paul Braren
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
May 22, 1:51 PM PDT
Hey Paul,Just reaching out to see if you got my last email?
How have things been since you swapped out the eero from the Ebay purchase? Also could you tell me more about the E61V1747DJTEZNZ9 eero that is making noises? I would like to investigate this more and see if we can't figure out what is wrong with that eero.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Regards,
Taylor | eero Support
Audio attachment playback, you'll hear the odd noise twice:
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 8:43 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Hi Taylor!
I did get your last email back on May 2nd, and responded to it:
Thank you for checking in, Taylor! I had another report of some network stalls on my son’s iPhone 7 Plus (only like 2 incidents per week), so we decided to do the soft reset on all 4 gen1 eeros, then forgot and rejoined WiFi on our iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 8 Plus, and iPhone X devices, and we’ll see how it goes in the coming few days.
Based on what you’ve said below, it seems you’re up to speed with what I said in that email. You’ve been wonderful to work with.
Swap progress
The replacement makes no noise, and seems to work just fine, for at least 2 weeks now. This is good! No more network stalls on any devices lately either, for about a month, this is also good!
Noise issue
I’m happy to mail the slightly noisy eero in for analysis, just give me a ship to address. I have also attached an unaltered recording, from my iPhone X, with the mic literally in contact with the slightly noisy (perhaps failing) eero. It’s a very high pitch recurring noise caught (twice) in the attached recording, and requires a person with younger (than my middle age) ears. My [AGE REDACTED] son can easily hear it from several feet away, in his bedroom.
A new issue, but only happened once
This was a strange one, and was only resolved by rebooting my eero network through the iOS app. My iPhone X wouldn’t stay connected to WiFi for more than a few seconds yesterday morning, as you’ll see in the unedited, unlisted video below. This has never been necessary before, in the nearly 2 years I’ve had my eero mesh. Seems at first like a DHCP issue (I’m using bridge mode), but then it doesn’t really, since WiFi only stays connected for a few seconds after renewing the DHCP lease. I dunno, not worried about this one unless it starts happening frequently.
Here's the problem demonstrated:
[VIDEO REMOVED]
and here was my work-around, the restart:
[VIDEO REMOVED]
I didn’t record video after, because there was nothing much to show, WiFi then stayed locked on just fine.
I hope this helps!
Paul Braren
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:35 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Taylor:
Good news. Issue # 3 below (with the demo video demonstrating WiFi disconnecting) is a non-issue. It happened today again, but only on my iPhone X again, not to anybody else’s iOS devices.
A simple reboot of the iPhone X “fixed” it for now. So that’s a whole lot more likely just an iOS 11.3.1 bug, rather than any sort of eero bug. Phew!
So the only remaining item is whether you want to do an autopsy on my (failing) eero gen1 unit (just the unit, not the power supply)? If so, just send me the ship to address, and it’s yours to keep!
Paul Braren
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
May 26, 11:24 AM PDT
Hello Paul,Thank you for the update and the videos with the behavior.
That is very interesting that the restart is able to help resolve the issue. I wonder if that is tied to the eeros being soft reset previously. That would have helped clear the cache on each unit in case it built up over time.
Do you know if the iPhone X has "WiFi Assist" and "Ask to Join Networks" options enabled?
I have seen some reports of customers having similar issues, and had success disabling these options and then rebooting the phone.
Please let me know if you are up for trying this.
Best,
Taylor | eero Support
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2018 7:24 AM
To: eero Customer Support support@eero.com
Subject: Re: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Thank you!
I don’t think I need his any more, but this detailed article seems like a decent place for me to point to if they bump into issues:
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/fix-ios-11-wifi-problems.html
FYI, My iPhone X “W-Fi Assist” was and is on, and “Ask to Join Networks” off.
Sent from my iPhone.
Paul Braren
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
May 30, 10:53 AM PDT
Hi Paul,Thank you for the update.
I have seen similar fixes for older generations of the iPhone, but this is the first I have seen this for the iPhone X.
Also just a heads up we just pushed our latest firmware update for the eeros, so they should all download them within the next few days.
If anything pops up, feel free to reach back out to us.
Best,
Taylor | eero Support
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:05 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Taylor, I would love to publish some or all of our conversation, but not without asking first if you think that’d be OK. I would just tack the dialogue below the article, like this:
https://tinkertry.com/replaced-linksys-with-eero-after-also-testing-luma#oct-26-2017-update
I suspect I’m not alone in what I experienced, and there might be some bits of wisdom and lessons learned in there that might help others.
If you are OK with that, please let me know, and also whether it’s ok to use your name, or if you’d rather I leave that out.
The support you provided was excellent, and sure makes the company you work for look great. I never had any sort of real support for all the Linksys, D-Link, and Netgear products I’ve tinkered with over the years, and these little issues were so minor compared to the messy 15 years of WiFi in my home before eero.
Also let me know if you want me to mail you the high-pitch-noise eero.
Thanks again!
Paul Braren
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
Jun 19, 8:08 AM PDT
Hey Paul,I apologize for the delayed response again. Unfortunately I have been in and out of work with [personal matter details redacted].
I do not mind if you publish our dialogue. Most of this information is out there anyways and I would not mind if it helped it even a few people. My only concern is that some people may misconstrue these functions as issues with either product, but it is just how these things work. Eventually I am sure that some of this will be resolved, but as new updates and OS versions roll out I am sure something else will break.
If you need anything just give me a shout.
Best,
Taylor | eero Support
Taylor (eero Customer Support)
Jun 27, 3:39 PM PDT
Hey Paul,Glad I could help!
I did have question for you. I was wondering if you have seen any of the recent additions to eero? Specifically we just pushed out some new features to our eero Labs. I don't know if any of the features would be useful for you, but I think they might be interesting to test out. Here is a list of all the new features:
https://support.eero.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000709886-What-is-eero-Labs-
These features are experimental and so far people seems to like them. Let me know if you decide to test it out and how it goes.
If you need anything in the meantime just give me a shout.
Regards,
Taylor | eero Support
From: Paul Braren
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 8:40 PM
To: 'eero Customer Support' support@eero.com
Subject: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: RE: [eero Customer Support] Re: Intermittent issues with iOS 11.x connectivity (network stalls resolved by WiFi toggle off/on)
Taylor, you asked:
I did have question for you. I was wondering if you have seen any of the recent additions to eero? Specifically we just pushed out some new features to our eero Labs.
Thanks for asking! Very happy you have feedback forums, I’ll try to pop in and put some suggestions/ideas there. You might be sorry you asked; )
Last weekend, I saw a commercial about Panoramic WiFi – Whole House Coverage, and was thinking about how much better it is for me to have control over my local DNS (with MAC address based reservations), and my own eero WiFi. But since I’m using my eero in bridged mode, so a lot of the experimental features I’d be interested aren’t possible for me.
You see, I use VMs a lot, and I sure love it when Windows and Linux machines get along on a name basis (versus IP), automatically. This means I’m pretty fond of dnsmasq as my EdgeRouter Lite’s DNS server, giving out DHCP leases and resolving local hostnames. When adding new devices or VMs, it automatically uses the name (such as Windows 10 automatic computer names) and all other systems on the network can now find that device by name. Much of this is explained in my too nerdy article here:
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite (UBNT ERLite-3) Update - still works great for my family, and for my VMware vSphere, Windows, and Linux home lab
and enterprise-y projects like running VMware in my home requires name resolution, FQDN resolution, and reverse lookups. That said, it sure would be really great to have local DNS in my eero instead, eliminating the need for the router pictured at left, below.
I realize catering to everybody’s needs is not possible, and that complexity is the enemy of security, and that all new features added to eero potentially add a whole new set of debug and support headaches. I also realize that having Cox Communications Gigablast in my house means my routing needs to be pretty darn speedy, routinely testing out at north of 600 Mbps down and 37 Mbps up. Nice job on the new speed tests, by the way!
Anyhow, if my pipe dream of local dns lookups ever somehow became available to me on my eero, then the list of related wants before I could retire my Ubiquiti router would include most of the following items:
Feature Request: Connected Devices Main Network and Guest Network Views
gones gones 1 yr ago Under Consideration
IP reservation sorting...
joedaman88 joedaman88 1 mth ago
Add PPTP, L2TP, or OpenVPN configuration
MotoChase motochase 2 mths ago
802.11k and 802.11v
Raev raev 3 mths ago
DNS server
WhiskerBiscuit whiskerbiscuit 9 mths ago
Link rate for eeros that are wired
JTravers jtravers 5 mths ago
Ethernet backhaul quality
Raev raev 5 mths ago
Feature Request: DNS Server Benchmarking
QuinnyPig quinnypig 1 yr ago Under Consideration
see also my related article:
How to use GRC's new DNS Benchmark, noting that malware protection is likely the primary benefit of avoiding your ISP's default DNS
Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 is another Google Public DNS alternative promising better privacy, with tested faster DNS Benchmark speeds
Quad9 is a good Google Public DNS alternative with DNSSEC, better privacy, and faster DNS Benchmark speeds
Please add a DNS server
WhiskerBiscuit whiskerbiscuit 1 yr ago Under Consideration
Request: Dynamic DNS Support
trilidar trilidar 1 yr ago Under Consideration
Egress Hairpinning
jalvani jalvani 1 yr ago Implemented
See also at TinkerTry
